A squash court, is it the ultimate idle asset ?
Published: 07 Nov 2005 - 14:59 by Viper
Updated: 26 Sep 2008 - 09:25
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I know well many better minds than mine will have mulled over this very problem for years, but it was brought back to me the other day when I had a hit during the day.
20 courts, 19 empty and only me producing any income for the idle asset.
Godness it must irk the court owners to see such infrastructure so under utilised.
I would hate to think what the ratio is between court use and court laying idle over a 7 day period ( eek ! )
What has been the most inovative cross use of a squash court that you have seen ?
Gym, dance, aerobics, etc are the common ones but there must be some interesting attempts made to put the asset to work.
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From Viper - 17 Jan 2006 - 18:19 - Updated: 17 Jan 2006 - 19:03
From rippa rit - 12 Nov 2005 - 07:04
aprice - we have a saying that goes like this "there are more ways of killing a cat than choking it with milk" so don't give up. Still put the notice on the Board for calling for interest from Social players wishing to play a comp, then grade them into groups of 5/6 and just play a Round Robin, say with just two rounds, then regrade. You may get some of the people from the leisure centre wanting to use your round robin for a practise game outside of their own competition too. Choose an appropriate day and time to make it attractive for them too.
If the grading is lopsided, which that is possible at the beginning, just turn it into a handicap event, PARS scoring, first to 21 - or make it timed squash - play flat strap for 20 minutes, with a 2 minute break - person with the most points at the end of the time wins.
There is more too aprice so keep searching to get something going. This exercise can be as hard or easy as you want it to be.
If the grading is lopsided, which that is possible at the beginning, just turn it into a handicap event, PARS scoring, first to 21 - or make it timed squash - play flat strap for 20 minutes, with a 2 minute break - person with the most points at the end of the time wins.
There is more too aprice so keep searching to get something going. This exercise can be as hard or easy as you want it to be.
From aprice1985 - 11 Nov 2005 - 23:05
One big problem is that the university club teams play at theleisure centre already so they may not be keen to have a second club using the facilities in case of conflict. Also i don't have time to do organisation as i am a medical student looking to play squash as a way to reduce stress not cause more!! it is a nice idea but feasibility would be a problem.
From Viper - 11 Nov 2005 - 08:15
Good advice from Rita aprice1985, give it a go yourself as Rita said this is just how a dynamic club can form, you can be the catalyst.
I am sure the LC operators will assist as a growing club will result in more people playing at their venue.
I am sure the LC operators will assist as a growing club will result in more people playing at their venue.
From rippa rit - 11 Nov 2005 - 07:36
aprice, I feel sure it is possible for a club to be formed at your Uni, it only takes a handful of people to form a committee to set up the framework, eg put a Notice on the board (3 columns, asking for names, phone nos., and rough grading, of those wanting to play a social in-house competition. Put a little blurb on the top, eg "INTERESTED -PROPOSED SOCIAL TEAMS COMPETITION" Suggested starting Day, Date, Time, Duration.
Maybe one of the parents will be the Convenor to save time for the students.
Other jobs to do once the names are in is to have a try-out day, have a few games for grading purposes, grade players into No. 1's, 2's,3's (if the teams are for 3 players)depending on the response of course. Grading will be necessary whether it is an individual competition or teams competition.
aprice, this is how clubs get formed, and competition gets keen, and tournaments evolve - all from this little beginning.
Let's know what you think. We can help you along as you go.
Maybe one of the parents will be the Convenor to save time for the students.
Other jobs to do once the names are in is to have a try-out day, have a few games for grading purposes, grade players into No. 1's, 2's,3's (if the teams are for 3 players)depending on the response of course. Grading will be necessary whether it is an individual competition or teams competition.
aprice, this is how clubs get formed, and competition gets keen, and tournaments evolve - all from this little beginning.
Let's know what you think. We can help you along as you go.
From aprice1985 - 11 Nov 2005 - 03:59
Hey, the leisure centre does have a club but it is the university one which i am a member of but it offers nothing in the way of a ladder or league for anyone not on the team and has no facility for team tryouts. i have beaten memebrs of the second team in an american to nine game but never played any matches. obviously the leisure centre cannot have two clubs operating from it due to fixture congestion. The club offers squash and tennis for £200 and nothing else!! My aim is to play semi competative matches so i will improve so i don't expect to be on a team but i would like to play matches in a ladder, the only way for me to do that is to pay a lot of money to join another club
From Viper - 10 Nov 2005 - 15:37
So aprice1985 you have public courts (in lesiure centers) but they do not have a decent club included.
What about getting a team together and enter pennant based at the lesiure center, in time that might expand into a club.
The private clubs you talk about must offer a lot more than squash for 200 quid, what other facilities do they have attached ?
There is a few private clubs here with courts but they are a small minority, it is mostly courts run by owner operators with a club attached playing pennant, the cost involved is small.
What about getting a team together and enter pennant based at the lesiure center, in time that might expand into a club.
The private clubs you talk about must offer a lot more than squash for 200 quid, what other facilities do they have attached ?
There is a few private clubs here with courts but they are a small minority, it is mostly courts run by owner operators with a club attached playing pennant, the cost involved is small.
From aprice1985 - 10 Nov 2005 - 10:31
Cost of courts is okay but membership fees are what get me, if there are good off peak times then it is okay but for most good clubs you will easily pay over £200 per year! To young people that is unaffordable so if you have no university club you play in a leisure centre where there is often not a well organised team or ladder so you may not improve. Tennis also has the advantage f many parents dreaming of their kids being millionaire pros, squash is just not in that league. The only reason i persevre with squash is i have played it for a while at a basic level and don't want to give up, the prices would put be off taking it up as a new sport.
From Viper - 10 Nov 2005 - 08:01
I wonder when/if any market research has been conducted into the sport of squash.
Here in Australia I have never seen of, heard of, or been exposed to any questioning by anyone involved in the game, not even a straw poll from my local squash centers.
Has squash Australia or the state bodies done any research into what people want from the game.
Coupled with that I have not seen any proactive promotion of the sport, not even on a small local scale.
If the game is content in a cupboard, then in a cupboard it will remain.
The game must start to make a noise.
Here in Australia I have never seen of, heard of, or been exposed to any questioning by anyone involved in the game, not even a straw poll from my local squash centers.
Has squash Australia or the state bodies done any research into what people want from the game.
Coupled with that I have not seen any proactive promotion of the sport, not even on a small local scale.
If the game is content in a cupboard, then in a cupboard it will remain.
The game must start to make a noise.
From Viper - 10 Nov 2005 - 07:08
Cost has no bearing (not in Australia anyway) often courts are half price all weekends and most courts are empty for most of any day. For a short window on week nights this are brisk but that is about it.
Equipement is cheap and there is little or no ongoing costs so cost to play the sport is not a factor.
Interesting situation for you though aprice1985, England still sufferes from "the old school tie" when it comes to squash, here the game is for the masses so to speak as there was countless independantly run squash centers all over the suburbs.
As we have been saying most have had to close as the sport is shrinking at some speed, which is inspite of Australia being one of if not the best at the game over the last 25 years !
Given all these factors in the sports favour and still the game is fading tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the game is presented, certainly here anyway.
Vitty, how is the game of squash "sold", presented in your country, do the kids like it and if so why ? and how do the people who run squash there promote the game of squash ?
Equipement is cheap and there is little or no ongoing costs so cost to play the sport is not a factor.
Interesting situation for you though aprice1985, England still sufferes from "the old school tie" when it comes to squash, here the game is for the masses so to speak as there was countless independantly run squash centers all over the suburbs.
As we have been saying most have had to close as the sport is shrinking at some speed, which is inspite of Australia being one of if not the best at the game over the last 25 years !
Given all these factors in the sports favour and still the game is fading tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the game is presented, certainly here anyway.
Vitty, how is the game of squash "sold", presented in your country, do the kids like it and if so why ? and how do the people who run squash there promote the game of squash ?
From drop-shot - 10 Nov 2005 - 02:41
Boys and girls, ladies and gentleman ... It's the endless discussion.
In my opinion - Prices of squash are not that different from tennis. I mean - court renting fee, coach, equipement, footwear, etc.
In my opinion - Prices of squash are not that different from tennis. I mean - court renting fee, coach, equipement, footwear, etc.
From aprice1985 - 09 Nov 2005 - 23:26
I feel that one problem is the cost, as i have said in another post as a student i can't afford to join a good squash club and on top of that there are court fees, raquets, balls, grips. It is not a cheap or easily accessible sport in the UK
From vitty - 09 Nov 2005 - 21:44
Hi Viper,
I don´t know if the situation is so horrible in Australia,but there are other countries,for example in Central Europe.I live in Czech Republic.We had communism here until ´89.Squash was considered as a "bourgeois" sport,the first court was erected in 1991 (!).So our country isn´t "exhausted" or "tired" of squash,for us it is a young,dynamic sport.Not sexy,maybe.But if you want to play squash,you have to book the court 3-4 days in advance,they´re full,especially in winter.Almost every squash-centrum has its own league,tournaments.And ask Slavi,I bet that situation in Hungary is even much better.What about Ukraine,Russia,Malaysia...who knows ? Maybe they´ll fall in love with squash.I can see good future for squash,but we need : TO BE ON THE TV !!! (at least World,British,US Open),better presentation of squash (to make it "sexier"),etc.
See you on the court,Vitty
I don´t know if the situation is so horrible in Australia,but there are other countries,for example in Central Europe.I live in Czech Republic.We had communism here until ´89.Squash was considered as a "bourgeois" sport,the first court was erected in 1991 (!).So our country isn´t "exhausted" or "tired" of squash,for us it is a young,dynamic sport.Not sexy,maybe.But if you want to play squash,you have to book the court 3-4 days in advance,they´re full,especially in winter.Almost every squash-centrum has its own league,tournaments.And ask Slavi,I bet that situation in Hungary is even much better.What about Ukraine,Russia,Malaysia...who knows ? Maybe they´ll fall in love with squash.I can see good future for squash,but we need : TO BE ON THE TV !!! (at least World,British,US Open),better presentation of squash (to make it "sexier"),etc.
See you on the court,Vitty
From Viper - 09 Nov 2005 - 17:04
Valid points Rita, but.......
Squash has had 20 + years to get their house in order since the heady days of the 80's and in all that time and inspite of all the international sucess of our players the courts continue to close and the sport continues to shrink.
It seems to me the sport is never going to recover no matter what is done and in the end it will settle at a very low participation level, somewhere lower than where we are at even now.
It will become and will stay an obscure sport played by a tiny few, this I think is the reality.
Unless a sport has the edge to capture the imagination of the kids it has no hope and I am afraid I can not see how squash can do that, it just a'int sexy as they say.
The few that take it up will be kids of the current generation but that will end up with a steady decline in new people over time as the sport is passed on less and less.
I bet if we win all the medals in squash in the com games the sport will still not see any long term spike in numbers.
BTW do you have any links to squash centers in Australia that are doing squash in an inovative way ?
Thanks Viper
Squash has had 20 + years to get their house in order since the heady days of the 80's and in all that time and inspite of all the international sucess of our players the courts continue to close and the sport continues to shrink.
It seems to me the sport is never going to recover no matter what is done and in the end it will settle at a very low participation level, somewhere lower than where we are at even now.
It will become and will stay an obscure sport played by a tiny few, this I think is the reality.
Unless a sport has the edge to capture the imagination of the kids it has no hope and I am afraid I can not see how squash can do that, it just a'int sexy as they say.
The few that take it up will be kids of the current generation but that will end up with a steady decline in new people over time as the sport is passed on less and less.
I bet if we win all the medals in squash in the com games the sport will still not see any long term spike in numbers.
BTW do you have any links to squash centers in Australia that are doing squash in an inovative way ?
Thanks Viper
From rippa rit - 09 Nov 2005 - 07:36
Squash court an asset
Viper, I know it is not easy for court operators, parents, coaches, etc to realise the pathway to skill. Some just pick up the bat and hit the ball, others play many other sports to develop their physical skills, hand-eye coordination, flexibility, etc and they take it all for granted. Yes, there are genetic factors, but the main thing is to be encouraged at an early age to be involved in a range of sports, and to have fun and want to keep coming back for more!
Many of our previous Aussie players were born into squash. Many of them their parents owned/built or leased squash courts, or they lived opposite the courts, or their school was adjacent to the courts, and they spent their afternoons playing while waiting for their parents to pick them up. Some sort of had a racket in their hand since being in nappies, so to speak.
The players that I can recall personally, off the top of my head, Sarah Fitzgerald, Rod Eyles, Rod, Brett and Michelle Martin.
Rachael Grinham, John White, Joseph Kneipp played in State Age Titles at 10 years of age and were in our development squads from about 6 years old. That is a lot of experience.
Getting back to Ray's post, it has several key points which our administrators, clubs, court operators and the like do not take on board when looking for answers for our decline in customers. So, here are some:
1. Centres are not family run complexes any more, except in small country areas, maybe.
2. Kids lack physical skills, since lifestyles have changed drastically.
3. Parents do not have the time to spend, or money to pay professionals, to spend quality time with their kids.
4. The games Ray mentioned would bring children and families to the centres to have fun with others, and at the same time build the foundation for squash. Squash is not an easy sport when you have no base skills.
5. It is a pity:
... Intendos, etc are used sitting down
... children get driven to school
... bicycles are rarely ridden
... parents seldom go to the park to play ball
6. Schools once played interschool squash, now it is basketball or soccer, something that has a big ball, played at the school requiring no bus fares, no transport, no fees.
If parents are going to pay for coaching their kids they want it to be in a sport that brings good returns, eg golf, tennis.!! Well, that is a long shot, hey.
These are all obstacles hindering our young children/adults from enjoying being fit, healthy, active, strong.
Also, it is noticeable the standard of students attending the AIS, in the main, do not have the talent.
These problems Viper are universal, and if our clubs and centres do not alter their marketing strategies, our memberships must drop.
As some say, not my problem!!
Viper, I know it is not easy for court operators, parents, coaches, etc to realise the pathway to skill. Some just pick up the bat and hit the ball, others play many other sports to develop their physical skills, hand-eye coordination, flexibility, etc and they take it all for granted. Yes, there are genetic factors, but the main thing is to be encouraged at an early age to be involved in a range of sports, and to have fun and want to keep coming back for more!
Many of our previous Aussie players were born into squash. Many of them their parents owned/built or leased squash courts, or they lived opposite the courts, or their school was adjacent to the courts, and they spent their afternoons playing while waiting for their parents to pick them up. Some sort of had a racket in their hand since being in nappies, so to speak.
The players that I can recall personally, off the top of my head, Sarah Fitzgerald, Rod Eyles, Rod, Brett and Michelle Martin.
Rachael Grinham, John White, Joseph Kneipp played in State Age Titles at 10 years of age and were in our development squads from about 6 years old. That is a lot of experience.
Getting back to Ray's post, it has several key points which our administrators, clubs, court operators and the like do not take on board when looking for answers for our decline in customers. So, here are some:
1. Centres are not family run complexes any more, except in small country areas, maybe.
2. Kids lack physical skills, since lifestyles have changed drastically.
3. Parents do not have the time to spend, or money to pay professionals, to spend quality time with their kids.
4. The games Ray mentioned would bring children and families to the centres to have fun with others, and at the same time build the foundation for squash. Squash is not an easy sport when you have no base skills.
5. It is a pity:
... Intendos, etc are used sitting down
... children get driven to school
... bicycles are rarely ridden
... parents seldom go to the park to play ball
6. Schools once played interschool squash, now it is basketball or soccer, something that has a big ball, played at the school requiring no bus fares, no transport, no fees.
If parents are going to pay for coaching their kids they want it to be in a sport that brings good returns, eg golf, tennis.!! Well, that is a long shot, hey.
These are all obstacles hindering our young children/adults from enjoying being fit, healthy, active, strong.
Also, it is noticeable the standard of students attending the AIS, in the main, do not have the talent.
These problems Viper are universal, and if our clubs and centres do not alter their marketing strategies, our memberships must drop.
As some say, not my problem!!
From Viper - 08 Nov 2005 - 21:18
I take all you have both said on board, but to be honest given I have never heard of, much less played or seen played any of these alternate uses for a squash court listed below, then it is fair to say they are having no impact, (and I am out and about.)
What I have seen with my own eyes is numerous squash centres close down, be used for other activities but not squash, be demolished or at best a token court or 2 left languishing.
This at the same time we have how many men and women in the top 20 players in the world, the british open champion, the over 35 ladies british open champion and was it 3 or 4 in the last 8 of the US open, and that is on the back of numerous titles and champions going back decades !
I am not telling you anything new I know but it must be tough out there trying to run a squash venue.
hockey (squockey)
soccer squash
badmnton
volleyball
3 on 3 basketball
mini tennis!!
What I have seen with my own eyes is numerous squash centres close down, be used for other activities but not squash, be demolished or at best a token court or 2 left languishing.
This at the same time we have how many men and women in the top 20 players in the world, the british open champion, the over 35 ladies british open champion and was it 3 or 4 in the last 8 of the US open, and that is on the back of numerous titles and champions going back decades !
I am not telling you anything new I know but it must be tough out there trying to run a squash venue.
hockey (squockey)
soccer squash
badmnton
volleyball
3 on 3 basketball
mini tennis!!
From rippa rit - 08 Nov 2005 - 13:54
Well spoken Ray. You sure get us wound up on this topic Viper. It will soon only be community based sports facilities that can afford to stay in business (no tax, no rates, built on Government/Council land)especially when they are under utilised. In Australia there will be more of the multi-sport complexes, eg with Pool, Basketball, Gym, Badminton, etc remaining as our old concept becomes a thing of the past. Pity about that.
Private investors in squash centres (real estate), in the main are mostly interested in the % return or capital gain. So, going back to squash centres, that are opened 90 hours per week, are generally fully utilised 6 hours a day M-F (30 hours fully operational)it is fairly obvious the centre will be sold, then converted to units or retirement villages. As Ray pointed out, if operators do not want to look at other markets, particularly other games that attract a different clientelle, that will develop the skills essential to play squash our game is in trouble here.
Private investors in squash centres (real estate), in the main are mostly interested in the % return or capital gain. So, going back to squash centres, that are opened 90 hours per week, are generally fully utilised 6 hours a day M-F (30 hours fully operational)it is fairly obvious the centre will be sold, then converted to units or retirement villages. As Ray pointed out, if operators do not want to look at other markets, particularly other games that attract a different clientelle, that will develop the skills essential to play squash our game is in trouble here.
From raystrach - 08 Nov 2005 - 08:02
dear viper
in defence of squash, there are literally thousands of sporting venues which lay idle at varying times, not just squash courts.
having said that, some squash venues are quiet more often han they should be. there are club and venue operating who think "outside the square". there are many sports played successfully on a squash court apart from different forms of modified squash/racketball:
the best of these were the first two. Squockey was a crazy game based on innebandy (scandinavian indoor hockey - can anyone provide more details?). i will be posting squockey details soon on the new site.
soccer squash (popular in australia for a while) was basically squash but played with a hairy soccer ball and with the foot and head.
i hope there are more out there with different activities!!
in defence of squash, there are literally thousands of sporting venues which lay idle at varying times, not just squash courts.
having said that, some squash venues are quiet more often han they should be. there are club and venue operating who think "outside the square". there are many sports played successfully on a squash court apart from different forms of modified squash/racketball:
- hockey (squockey)
- soccer squash
- badminton
- volleyball
- 3 on 3 basketball
- mini tennis!!
the best of these were the first two. Squockey was a crazy game based on innebandy (scandinavian indoor hockey - can anyone provide more details?). i will be posting squockey details soon on the new site.
soccer squash (popular in australia for a while) was basically squash but played with a hairy soccer ball and with the foot and head.
i hope there are more out there with different activities!!
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Had a hit at a 5 court squash center this afternoon.
On leaving the manager told me the courts were being demolished in a couple of weeks, he said they could not produce an income as a squash center so the club and the building is to be razored to the ground and appartments built in their place.
He said squash has not been profitable for 10 years or more and in his opinion it will only get worse as he knows other venues that have closed in the last few years and he knows of others heading the same way this year.
5 more courts bite the dust - bugger
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