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slipping grip

Published: 09 Mar 2007 - 09:06 by aprice1985

Updated: 24 Sep 2008 - 16:22

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Has anyone any tips on how to stop your racquet twisting and moving when you play.  I currently have 2 PU grips over the original but this seems to make no difference.  i normally hold the racquet near the butt end but found it a bit better when i moved my hand up the racquet is this normal?  my hands dont get particularily sweaty and i often wear a wristband which makes no difference really.

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From zeezop - 18 Apr 2007 - 06:37

I had this problem as well. I bought two identical racquets and taped them both the same, when one was slipping I would switch it before the next game started. Also, I found rosin/rock salt worked great. My pet peave is why don't the manufacturers just design racquest with a twist in the handle?

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From hamburglar - 23 Mar 2007 - 16:25

I know overgrips are thin, but there is added girth. I can feel the difference between a tightly and loosely wound Karakal replacement grip. I like them tight so they are as thin as possible.
Has anyone used a what-a-grip? those one-piece rubbers that slide over the handle, well, like a rubber?

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From raystrach - 23 Mar 2007 - 08:09   -   Updated: 23 Mar 2007 - 08:13

hi

this thread has some legs! and here is another comment that will have you choking those racket grips in anticipation...

sagey - re the wierd shaped grip - that's why you have to hold it all in place with the layer of insulation tape!

jbs24 - you got it on the first point, but on the second re thickness...
  • an overgrip does not add anything to the thickness of a grip
  • it is extremely thin - it has no real body - it is more of a surface to grip on
  • when it is wound around an existing grip, the little thickness is does have is counteracted by the compression of the original grip it is covering as it is usually wound fairly tight
you are also right on the effect of the adhesive - that is where the insulation tape comes in handy again!

and ps sagey  - isn't it always the way?

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From SuperSage666 - 21 Mar 2007 - 22:36

Tried to change my first racket's rectangular grip into a more rounded grip like rippa's post stated, but the adhesive on the stips of tape that I used to build up the sides slipped and I ended up with a weird looking twisted grip.  

Got myself some fiberglass (surfboard repair kit), sanded the existing glue off the racket and built the sides up with strips of fiberglass.  Was probably the best grip I ever had, but the racket head caved in about two weeks later.

Adieu,

Sagey

 

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From hamburglar - 21 Mar 2007 - 14:04

I don't see any difference between what Rippa and Ray call 'overgrips'

My criteria:
You would never strip a handle down and use one 'overgrip' alone.
You would strip a handle down and put on a 'replacement' grip.

therefore an overgrip must build up the handle diameter. some people put a replacement grip over the original grip to build it up even faster, but on removing, the adhesive might pull up the underlying grip.

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From rippa rit - 21 Mar 2007 - 12:47

aprice - I must be going mad.  Ray does not agree and I quote the two explanations:

Rita said "Over grip or wrap  - fit another over the top of the existing grip (to build up the grip and make it a bit bigger to hold in your hand)."
Ray said "to me an overgrip is just that - it is a thinner piece of grip material with no adhesive which is wrapped tightly around an existing grip - ..."

So an overgrip is putting a grip on top of the existing grip, whether it be thick or thin, leather, towelling, synthetic.  Yes.
Gauzewrap or Gripwrap is what it says gauze (like a bandage that has been impregnated with resin) and is supposed to stop the slipping (as do the resin powder puff bags). It is not a grip.

Aprice - your question was?   Did it get answered?

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From raystrach - 21 Mar 2007 - 08:28

hi folks
  • ferris99 makes a couple of good points.
  • not too sure if i agree with Rippa Rit about overgrips -
    • to me an overgrip is just that -
    • it is a thinner piece of grip material with no adhesive which is wrapped tightly around an existing grip -
    • they must be secured at the top otherwise they will unravel
    • they are usually a lot cheaper than a normal grip
    • when they get soiled take them off and throw them away - put on another
    • makes the normal grip last much much longer
    • come to think of it, why aren't I using them!
  • on changing the shape of the grip - in addition to what rita had to say
    • with the old timber handles, you could actually use a rasp to file it down
    • i would not recommend that with the current moulded grips although i have done it before - the quality of that part of the racket seems all over the place
    • what I do if I am not too lazy is to use a piece of old grip(do not use a padded grip) and put it on the edge of the handle (the thin side)
    • making sure that it does not move, wrap some insulation tape around the handle(working it up the length of the handle)
    • this will ensure that the grip will come off easily and a new grip can be put on without having to do it all over again
    • whatever you you always ensure that you do the same to both edges so that the handle is symmetrical

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From ferris69 - 21 Mar 2007 - 00:48   -   Updated: 21 Mar 2007 - 00:51

I still think Karakal are the best. There are a lot of copies out there such as Ashaway, Titan, as well as company's own brands but they are definitely not the same and are always less tacky.

I agree too that the different colours have different characteristics, with yellow and white being the best (there is a company in the UK that do a box of all yellow ones!) and the darker colours like Blue and black are the worst.

Definitely wear a wrsistband as this will help and try a resin pad or an anti sweat spray that will block the sweat ducts.

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From ferris69 - 21 Mar 2007 - 00:48   -   Updated: 21 Mar 2007 - 00:51

From rippa rit - 20 Mar 2007 - 13:35   -   Updated: 20 Mar 2007 - 13:36

aprice - your questions in order:
1. Replacement grip - take the old one off and fit a new one (replace it 'cos it is worn out or slippery).
2. Over grip or wrap  - fit another over the top of the existing grip (to build up the grip and make it a bit bigger to hold in your hand).
3. Change the shape of the grip - say, from round to a bit rectangular - take the existing grip off (now you have a bare handle) put a few strips of insulation tape down the side or top, depending which way you want the grip to shape, and put a grip over the top. A rectangular shape might be a bit easier to grip and stop turning as opposed to a round grip shape handle. If you want to make it rectangular build up the top and bottom (not the sides).

If not sure, just wrap the grip around the handle without taking the sticky off the back, to see if it seems to be about right.

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From aprice1985 - 20 Mar 2007 - 08:31

can someone please explain to me the difference between an overgrip and a replacement grip?  Also ray how do you change the shape of your grip, i am sure you said in an earlier post but i couldn't find it.

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From SuperSage666 - 19 Mar 2007 - 23:04

Thanks Ray,

I don't sweat much at all, so I suppose I haven't had that problem you mentioned.

Superglue should solve aprice's problem.

One of the quotes I came across when studying top players is that, "If you have the correct grip, you can glue the racket to your hand, as you should never change your grip during the match".   Just had a look at my notes and cannot remember where exactly this line came from. 

Cheers,

Sagey 

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From raystrach - 19 Mar 2007 - 10:42

hi sagey

sorry, i cannot agree with you on different grips not making any difference, although I agree that price is not the determining factor. sweat probably dictates what becomes slippery or not and for those who sweat a lot, like me, it is vital the grip remains 'grippy' even when wet.

i bought an expensive dunlop or slazenger grip a year or two ago and it really felt great - that is until i got sweaty. at that point it became like a bar of wet soap, to the extent I could not continue using the racket.

i normally use a local brand(baron) which is actually the cheapest available and have found them to be good. I am pretty sure they come out of the same factory as ashaway. i also agree with others that some colours seem better than others although I am not sure if it is the colour itself our just the batch or grips.

 the other thing not mentioned so far is the actual shape of the grip. I prefer a more rectangular grip ( i think head has these) as opposed to a more oblong shaped grip - i have to reshape most grips if i am to get this shape. I have to admit that i have been too lazy to do this recently.

everyone is different, but everyone's play is determined by the racket grip.

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From rippa rit - 19 Mar 2007 - 08:07

aprice - over exaggerate your grip, eg position the Peter Pointer knuckle to point over the opposite shoulder (sort of like a backhand tennis grip) and that should force you to use the grip correctly and maybe stop the turning and twisting of the wrist.

Try it.

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From aprice1985 - 18 Mar 2007 - 21:31

The grip was still slipping a lot during solo practice today,  i think part of it definitely is not getting my racquet up early.  I think rita may ber right wehn she said it was use of the wrist as when i use the wrist that is when the grip goes.  Also I find i try to readjust my grip in the middle of rallies any ideas how to train myself out of this.  I dont suppose i can tape my racquet to my hand?

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From SuperSage666 - 17 Mar 2007 - 23:40   -   Updated: 17 Mar 2007 - 23:40

I've never had trouble with any grips, except for the old towelling grips that died out in the seventies, they used to get very rough when combined with sweat and rosin.  (Sandpaper grip) 

Even the cheap grips don't bother me, I believe it is more the way you grip the racket, than the make or type of grip material that is on the handle.

My current grip is the cheapest I could get and it is almost totally worn away, but I still don't have any problem with slipping or inability to control the shot.

I covered my grip technique in my previous post.

Adieu,

Sagey  

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From rskting - 16 Mar 2007 - 15:50

stop sweating so much. just kidding. i just try different grips. but some pointfore, buy some blacknight, buy some wilson, i'm sure you'll find one. i tried one of those oldschool towel grips, actually feels quite pleasant.

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From stevo - 15 Mar 2007 - 21:51   -   Updated: 15 Mar 2007 - 21:56

In a another thread I think I said that I thought the Karakal PU Super grips were the "daddy" of all grips. Thats because I had been using them for about 2 years without any real issues, changing about once a month.

However in the last month my hand seems to be slipping more and more.  So I decided to try a different grip. I tried the Ashaway grip, which seems to be very similar to the Karakal, perhaps a bit tackier. But these grips go the same way as the Karakals, my hand starts slipping.

Now I am convinced it is me and not the grip, coz at the start of each match and even game or rally within a match the grip feels fine. But once I start sweating I find that about 5 shots into the rally it gets really hard to control the racket. In fact in a match the other night I must have lost close to 5 points in the final game coz the racket slipped while striking the ball.

I don't know what has changed recently, it isn't really any hotter than it was over a month ago. Maybe I am sweating more, maybe it is more humid.

For the record, I only have the grip on the racket, no under grip. I take the original off and put the replacement on. It suits my hand size.

I guess it is time to experiment with other grips and try out Rays and the others tips.

PS. Horse pooh, hilarious

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From Adz - 15 Mar 2007 - 19:42

Sleave;

I completely agree about the Karakals, I've only got the Dark Blue grips left (the box I bought had no black ones in it). They're absolutely useless and need to be changed after about 40 mins to 1 hour of play.

A good friend of mine uses a Pointfore rippled grip (it has a ripple through it with perforations for breathing. He uses them for literally 2 to 3 months before changing the grip and when trying one he's had on a racquet for over 2 months, it still felt tacky to grip. Could be worth a try after I've used up all my Karakals!

 

I've also tried overgrips before, but I found that they got very slippery very quickly as they have no body with which to absorb and sweat. The sweat stays on the surface meaning that I had to change them between games at one point! Although once dried out they were reuseable for a few more matches. I now use them as undergrips to adjust the grip diameter to the correct size for my hand. I use one wilson overwrap underwrapped and then a karakal PU grip on top.

Adz

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From nickhitter - 14 Mar 2007 - 00:35

Sleave

I can't comment on their replacements grips, but I find that the tecnifibre 'player's wrap' overgrips are really good and more comfortable than other overgrips. they're really cheap also.

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From drop-shot - 13 Mar 2007 - 23:14

Hello to all,

I thought I will never comment on grips and rackets anymore , but it's time to touch that topic as it becomes really important one...

Background:

-- Stupid me. Year or so ago I have purchased entire box of Karakal PU grips (assorted colours). I tend to agree with everybody complaining on different colours of Karakal grips. Black is as dry as pepper or well grinded coffee. It does not help it was sealed. The best was white and yellow.

-- Anyway, now I cannot use any of the leftovers (few grey and black), because it gets slippery after 45 minutes of match. And I am not patient enough to change the grip after each practice.

-- out of curiosity I bought Wilson Aire and Tecnifibre Red grip at the club I play. Wilson seems to be very good one, soft, tacky, very solid.
-- Tecnifibre Red grip, even if used by TT is a piece of horse pooh   I am NOT a sweating type o'guy, but the grip gets awfully wet after one game, not even the match. And for gods' ake it is SHORTER than any other brand I used before...

by the way - The Tecnifibre racket Carboflex 140 Texalium seems to be the most "stiffy" racket I've ever held in my palm. After each overhit drive it does vibrate even, gosh 

--  I do use wristbrands.

Question to other users :

- What brands of grips would you recommend to check out? Tecnifibre in my opinion is no-go.
- What do you think about overgrips? I am reluctant to experiment with overgrips.

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From rippa rit - 12 Mar 2007 - 10:54

arthur - glad it is sorting out.
The brand names, who sponsor the pros, will custom make the rackets to suit the player's needs of course.  They would bend over backwards to get a top world class player on board.
Most of the top players would have contracts with conditions attached too. The grip would be easy to adjust in size for each individual player. 

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From aprice1985 - 12 Mar 2007 - 08:24

just switched back downb to one grip over the originla and it feels as secure as two but with more control so we will see how it plays tomorrow!  It definitly seems to be using the first and middle fingers more that has made a difference though, thanks for the help.  I guess the manufacturers can make too thick an original grip or people with small hands just couldn't hold it!  I wonder have pros though about having custom sized grips?  How much differnce it would make might be debateable though!

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From rippa rit - 12 Mar 2007 - 08:03

arthur - better just do a little experiment with your grip.
Grab a pencil like your racket, then grab a felt pen, then grap the broom handle, then grab your squash racket firstly holding it up high on the grip, and then down as low as possible.

You observed:
  • When you grabbed the pencil the fingers touched, quite a strain to hold tightly.
  • When you grabbed the felt pen it was not so strained and a better grip.
  • When you grabbed the broom you had a bit more control over the grip.

So, now go to the Strokes/Movement section in the Squash Library, look at the pic of the grip and note the position of the fingers (with a little bit of squeeze left in the fingers) - that is the correct size for your hand if it looks like that.

Of course hold the grip in the same position as when you play to get the right indication.
It depends on the length of your fingers of course.

Sometimes it is necessary to take off the existing grip, wrap a bit of insulation tape around the grip to build it up a little (does not take much), and then put the grip back (starting at the bottom).  Unless you have very long fingers two grips might be too much and that would prevent your fingers from locking around the handle firmly.  The knuckle of your Peter Pointer finger plays a big part in the gripping, so spread that finger so it sort of winds around. 

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From aprice1985 - 12 Mar 2007 - 07:42

can you explain what you mean by fingers not touching when you squeeze the grip?  Do you mean the fingers not pressing together side by side?  I think part of the problem has been that i have been gripping the racquet with the ring and little finger more that index and middle and this has taken much of the strength out of my grip.  I do find that if i have no grips over the one the racquet comes with my fingers wrap around so much the are sitting inside my hand again!

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From rippa rit - 12 Mar 2007 - 07:05

Sam the higher up the handle you hold the racket, the smaller the grip becomes.
The shorter you grip the racket, the shorter the swing and less leverage.
Yes, the shorter handle gives a better feeling for the racket head, and more control.

For those having problems holding their racket during play,without it spinning or slipping in their hand, make sure you can squeeze the grip without the fingers touching. Spread the fingers, and keep the racket head above the wrist.

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From SamBWFC - 12 Mar 2007 - 04:18

I only use one grip, I've never known anyone to put two or more grips on their racket. I prefer my grip to be as thin/small as possible, just a personal preference. I use the Karakal PU grips.

 

Another point that others have missed off is, are you hitting the ball well? I used to lash out at the ball quite a lot when I was learning, and this led to me hitting the ball around the outsides of the strings i.e. not in the middle of the racket. This always led to my grip turning in my hand.

 

Also, I don't know if this is down to personal preference or not, but I hold my racket quite high up the handle. It just takes a lot of weight off the racket and allows a lot more control.

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From rippa rit - 10 Mar 2007 - 09:22

arthur - the number of grips required to get the right size depends on the length of your fingers, and the size of the grip when it came from the manufacturer.  Suppose they are trying to suit all and it is easier to build up the grip than pear it down so to speak.

Arthur if you keep your racket head controlled with the wrist slightly cocked you will find the racket will not slip out of your hand as easily due to the angle or maybe gravity too.

If your palm is not sweaty the grip should not slip about unless you are fiddling with your grip as a means to get a better, maybe worse, effect from the swing.  To hit controlled shots like tight length, drops, lobs your swing/grip has to be much more controlled than, say, a full blooded cross court.

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From hamburglar - 10 Mar 2007 - 08:00   -   Updated: 10 Mar 2007 - 08:00

I use the sportdiscount.com grips. supposedly they're karakal PU, but they are less tacky. But they're only $1 each if you buy 48 and one lasts me a few months.

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From aprice1985 - 10 Mar 2007 - 07:42

just out of interest how many grips do other people put on their racquet as i find the grip they come with way to thin and so put at east one over it and tried two to see if that helped with the slipping.  Jbs24 says none but what is anyone else using and anyone know about pros?

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From SuperSage666 - 09 Mar 2007 - 22:36   -   Updated: 09 Mar 2007 - 22:48

Click Below for Attached Images

Thumb and Index Finger in Ideal Grip

Hi Aprice,

Possibly the most common problem here, especially in our summer.

I like jbs's answer, I often demo the 2 finger grip by holding the racket right at the butt end and then swinging at full power without the racket slipping out of my hand.  It often makes those I demonstrate it to very jumpy and you can see them preparing to duck my racket.  Though I have never lost it yet.  Then I get them to try it and they are often surprised at how free and casual the grip feels and also how it doesn't slip.  

Too many people hold the racket with a full fingered (hand) grip, often called the frying pan grip or sometimes I call it, "Perched Cocky" grip.  This is a very slippery grip, as it works on the same principle as the bed of nails effect.   Pressure spread out over a wider area or more nails / fingers, means less penetration or grip. The same pressure spread over a smaller area or less nails / fingers) means more penetration or stronger grip.  The width of the grip is also important, a grip too wide tends to force the "Perched Cocky" grip as it spreads the two fingers too open for comfort.  A correctly sized grip should allow the thumb and index fingers to just  rest both end segments (tip to first knuckle) together. side by side.

Too narrow and you will have your own  fingernails digging into your thumb or palm.  Ouch, that was my first racket.  

Enjoy,

Sagey,

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From rippa rit - 09 Mar 2007 - 14:39

Arthur - since you are holding your racket very close to the butt, I think you are getting your power out of the wrist movement rather than from the pronation/supination of the forearm?
Take a look at your swinging action? 

Wow - you have plenty of things to look at - so what was the real problem?

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From hamburglar - 09 Mar 2007 - 09:44   -   Updated: 09 Mar 2007 - 10:09

get rid of 2 of your 3 grips. The bigger grip makes it more like a tennis racquet and may feel better, but it will take away from every other part of your squash game.

Your grip should be relaxed up until impact and you should really only need 2 fingers to hold your racquet---thumb and middle should be pressed together with thumb higher on the handle. Try hitting like this for a while (assuming you're using the correct swing) and see if you can hit the ball cleanly. Then add the other fingers and you'll feel the difference. Using a good grip, i find I don't have to replace grips as often, probably once every few months when I have to restring.

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From raystrach - 09 Mar 2007 - 09:32

hi aprice

without seeing what you are doing, my guess is that you are falling down in one or both of two areas.
  • You do not grip your racket firmly enough or in the correct way. take a look at the library and check your grip with the one in the library.
    • it is not always easy to get the right balance as far as the tightness of grip.
    • the best i can say is that it should be firm - don't 'choke' the racket handle.
    • Also you may be holding it right at the very end of the racket, with the fleshy part of the hand which should be firmly on the end of the racket, actually off the end
  • the other cause could be a lack of control in the preparation and the swing. many players lift the racket up at the last second when going to play a shot.
    • this often means a pretty violent series of swings where the racket head is flailing around in all directions.
    • this makes it extremely difficult to keep the racket stable in your grip. the fact you are having some success in holding the racket a little higher up the grip indicates that this might be the problem.
    • if you understand levers, when holding the grip higher, the racket is able to be controlled far better as the weight of the racket head is closer to the fulcrum - your hand.
    • many top players hold the racket right at the top of the grip (currently amy rashoor, and others including jihangir khan and rodney martin) you could consider doing that permanently
    • to rectify, prepare much earlier and keep the racket head under control during the entire swing sequence

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