hi folks

i will pick up this thread in a new post over the next day or two. I have been promising an article on participation problems for a while. the new article will address some of these isues.

by the way, i have developed this into a business system. I am just about to commence the final trial before releasing it on the market.

Check the Activators Business System

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With such obvious sucess with your squash venue:

1. Has the model been copied elsewhere ?

2. If not why not ?

3. There needs to be an understanding of whether cost does effect participation, I do not think it does at all.

4. I think the sport needs more and wider implementaion of these great programs :

http://www.victoriansquash.com.au/juniors_main.htm

Excellent stuff

5. Also when was the last time the peak body engaged a market research study on the state and direction of the sport I wonder ?

 

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Ray - regarding your last dot point.
The bit about young people participating always grabs me.
I thought that was due to the promotion of programs to suit young people too (the targert audience) eg by, not mixing the young ones up with their Mum's and Dads so to speak all in the one comp. ?

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hi all

my recent post, quote:

"you will also find that the standard of facilities in Australia (and new Zealand) would not be up to european  and us standards on average (even with the decline, we still have many by world standards). a big reasons why squash is cheaper "

was NOT an argument for the games decline but one for  the perceived affordability of the sport.

however, since we are on that subject can i bring to notice my experience whilst running a squash club/centre. this was part of a multi sport centre which also had an equivalent number of tennis courts(which i had NO involvement with) the "stories relate to a 2 year period in the very late nineties.

Tennis story:

• Late nineties around time of wins by Pat Rafter (US Open), an Aussie Davis Cup team wins - Huge Tennis profile
• Court hire cost lower than average
• Service levels (as i saw them) were very low
• small advertising budget(traditional - newspapers etc)
• Overall tennis participation in other venues in the area, static at worst
• Tennis participation down about 50%

Squash Story

• Little or no Squash profile (similar to now i guess)
• Court hire cost higher than average
• high service levels
• zero advertising (traditional) but other service based promos
• overall squash participation in the area going down slightly
• squash participation up from 85 regulars to over 200 regulars (no stealing from other venues - all new or renewed customers)
  
• regular participation by young people (18 - 30) up from about 5 to about 55.

Decide for yourself what works.

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Yeah everyone - Sorry Slavi I tried to promote a job for Ray (Coach), Slavi (Advertising & Promo) to increase our player base, increase court utilisation, tap into the schools,  introduce more player programs,  seek sponsorship for tournaments, and bring our top players home, but nobody was listening - bad luck, good idea. 
So, with the thought of having increased our expenses by $100k pa the court hire would surely now be around the $30 an hour mark (with a cuppa and biscuit included!) - how are the sums looking?
So, if Australian Squash was game to bite the bullet and try to stir up the market, put some strategies in place, the cost of squash in this country would have to increase.
I would have to comment that in the more expensive squash countries more promotion/adv and sponsorship is financed by the players reflecting in the court hire charges, etc.
If the court owner financed the deal, court hire would increase, if the club/associations financed the deal, affiliation fees would increase. And, visa versa.
More players, more merchandise sold, more sponsorship possible, more TV promotion, better service at the squash counter, better utilisation of the venues, more juniors coming through, more ranked players, possibility of finding a world champ - So there is the delima.
It is not magic but just sums.

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Quote:

 "you will also find that te standard of facilities in australia (and new zealand) would not be up to european  and us standards on average (even with the decline, we still have many by world standards). a big reasons why squash is cheaper "

 

Two things there :

1. Yes a lot of the squash courts can be dumps.

2. There is public courts around to get a game easily.

But I do not either of these play much of a part in the games decline, I think it is more the game itself and the lack of any effective profile, many kids/young people have never heard of squash much less seen it played or played it themselves.

 

Similarly Lacrosse is a great sport but who knows anything about it ? 

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one thing is emerging from his discussion

Squash's relative expense varies from country to country. without looking at overall participation figures, i would be surprised if  the lower the participation rates, the higher the cost.

even though squash has lost popularity somewhat in australia, it is still very popular by world standards. so many things come into the equation, not the least being the overall standard of living and the ability of citizens to afford leisure activities in a particular country.

it has to be remembered that australians are relatively well off by world standards. you will also find that te standard of facilities in australia (and new zealand) would not be up to european  and us standards on average (even with the decline, we still have many by world standards). a big reasons why squash is cheaper

espcially as some australian centres charge far too little (thus not being profitable enough), that situation is unlikely to change until there are even fewer centres/clubs to play squash

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This does not wash, Squash IS a cheap sport.

Court hire, lets say $16 per hour DIVIDED BY 2 = $8 per hour per person.

Set up costs as I have already says is very cheap, maybe one off purchase of racket, shoes and ball = less than $200

Only on going cost is court hire (for pennies) and a ball now and then.

 

IT IS AS CHEAP AS CHIPS

I do not know what you people are smoking !

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I am only waiting for your call from Australia, please do hire me there and i'll do good ads and good pr, please call ... :-)

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Let's look on the bright side of life -
Well, when squash revitalises in Oz it may have a new image as the Clubs, more likely private enterprise, go all out and employ a Coach (like Ray), and Advertising Guru (like Slavi), charge yearly membership fees like gyms, and then maybe the sport will get some benefit too by having a customer service base. 
What about the court hire?  Probably treble.

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I am based in the US and squash is an expensive sport to play as opposed to playing in Europe, Australia, etc. However, most sports do have a cost associated with them. As a beginner, I am finding out though the game may be expensive--it's worth the pleasure and friendships I have made in the last 6 months. Have a happy & healthy New Year!

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Well, Ray has a point here.
In this case, I'd say, squash is not cheap (again) way of entertaining.
Movie ticket is for about 4 USD in Hungary, movie lasts for more than 60 minutes :-)
Theatre ticket price is similar.
Concert tickets (rock, pop, etc) start from 5 USD for local/ small international bands to end up with 50-80 USD for somebody like Depeche Mode or Phil Collins

Coffee and biscuit in the caffeteria goes for ca. 4 USD

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little wonder squash centres are closing down  - charging $12.00 per hour

you cannot possibly make a living out of that - it should be about twice that! as the saying goes: "you can't give it away"

that is the advantage of membership systems for regular players. play more - pay less

the best way to look at it is not only comparisons to other sports, but to other leisure activities

movie ticket: $12 - $14 au

lottery ticket: $5 - $20 ++ au

concert: $50 - $250 +++  au

theme-park : $50 ++  au

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i see ... so i do not complain on our 4 degrees and rain ....

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Trouble is this is what comes with temps of 106 F = http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/

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45 Celcius ??? Oh, man, I'd love to go there right now!!!!
In Budapest is 4 degrees and raining from yesterday...

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Enjoy London it is a very exciting place, pity about the crappy weather though.

 

45 degrees C here this week

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There is an uncountable number of clubs, from small one s to huge and modern ones... I do not know yet what will I choose.First few weeks/ months I will spend on research and checking :)

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Is there lots of public courts in London or will you have to join a club to get access to a court ?

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I know, I did check it already. At least squash is cheap over there :-)

P.S. Check out my profile :-) I am proffessionally related to advertising.

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London hey, if we are talking about cost, then living in London takes the cake, one hell of an expensive place to live my friend, the cost of squash will be the least of your expenses.

 

What do you do ?

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Sure, discussion :-)
no, I play in EUrope, Hungary, Budapest, Buda hills...

but in 2 weeks I am going to live in EUROPE, United Kingdom, London, so I hope my squash will improve a lot...

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Discussion not argument Slavi ..............

You have to be joking.

Lets take set up costs:

Decent Squash racket = about $ 150

Decent Golf Clubs = about $ 1,500

Decent skis = about $ 1,500

Court hire here is about $12 per hour, thats $ 6 per hour per person, which equals a coffee and a biscuit.

Ski instructor = $100.00 + an hour

Golf pro = $ 60.00 + an hour

You can say a lot about why squash is not a growing sport but cost is not one of them, well not here anyway.

I am not sure where you are playing but here there is easy access to public squash courts, courts that are empty 20 out of any 24hr period, I can just rock up without booking the vast majority of the time the courts are open and get any number of glass back squash courts.

Squash is as cheap as chips, a sport does not get much cheaper.

I am confused Slavi, are you playing in the US ?

Viper

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I think we discussed that topic re: Squash is a costy sport, so there's no need to argue again.
Just check this:
12 USD is an hour of court from 7AM till 5PM
20 USD is an hour of court from 5PM till 10 PM
then it goes to 10 USD from 10PM till midnight.
Add the squash coach fee to that (1 hr is 15 USD)
Thanks god I am the club member with a lot of discount for spending half of my life there :-)

And shoes and the racket is another 100 USD at least. And unfortunatelly it wears off pretty fast if you use it often.

I just wonder if I will be still able to play that much of squash in London...

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Squash is a very cheap sport.

All you need to get going is shoes, racket and ball, court hire is then for next to nothing, $12/hr = $6 per hour per person.

Sports does not get much cheaper than this.

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Squash is not a cheap sport at all ...
And I can't agree more with Viper words:

"Everyone understands the quality they are buying with entry level gear from a chain store against $200 rackets from a pro shop."

I would even go a bit further and laugh on amateur players (1-2 hours per week) buying top gear just to show off.Though, looking at their game leaves a room for improvement. So, it's not the brand but the skill there.

Rita, regarding the toothbrush - do not forget to change it once per two months maximum :-)

But generally, agree with that, racket choice seems to be personal preference. In my case it is the effect of experiments and searching for The One. For the time being I am ok with Wilson, though if you ask my coach, he will tell you I played better with E-Squash.

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Even those cheap rackets from K-Mart are not bad rather they should be seen as an opportunity to introduce kids to the sport.

Affordability is a key factor in take up rates of sports and that entry level racket provides that.

Everyone understands the quality they are buying with entry level gear from a chain store against $200 rackets from a pro shop.

 

Just like the xmas package fishing rod for little Johnny from Target the hope is he grows to love catching fish and then goes on to become a life long buyer of quality fishing tackle.

This is how it works and it is no different in squash.

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Viper and Slavi it is good that you agree to disagree! 
So, is the word we are looking for "specificity"?
Hashim Khan also said in his book "squash racket is like toothbrush, personal".

• So that would mean different things to different people. 
  
• To me I see the gear having the characteristics to suit the player's style, height, weight, technique, and the stringing accordingly.

Just another thought, and it covers clothing, shoes, rackets, etc.

•  If a sporting company really wants a player on board they will bend over backwards to adapt their model for that player's needs, but they are not going to publicise that.
  
•  It is possible they may make a new model, put on a signature, and give the player royalties for the sales.
• It becomes a "deal".
  
• So now we are talking about marketing and promotion a different subject.

Just stiring now. It must be the New Year got into my blood today fellas!
Yep, bad rackets are made and sold, but we hope to K-Mart straight out of Taiwan in container lots.
Yes, and I would recommend those to some players, eg High School students who bang and bash about the court, non squash sensitive types too for starters.
So "there are horses for courses" as the saying goes.

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I think we are in agreeance having read your post, ie "it is the talent not the tool" no bad rackets are made these days so it just comes down to personal preference, or sponsorship in the case of pro's, same in golf ,same in skiing, amazing how the best golf club/ski suddenly becomes the second best when a pro accepts a new sponsor

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Agreed there ("I bet if you were offered a huge sponsorship by an alternate manufacturer of say rackets you would suddenly find the difference from you current wand dissapear......."), but I am NOT sponsored in spe by Wilson. I used to play with Head before, I used to play with Prince rackets before, I played with Dunlop and e-squash as well. After months of changes and searching I found Wilson fitting my style perfectly... But maybe next year I will change my gear again and I can write review on it as well. And again I will preach it to the sky... Because reaching certain point in your technique and game you can play with anything. Actually I did discuss it with Ricketts when he has started to use Wilson... I said that he could play with the frying pan and still beat a lot of folks around. He laughed but he appreciated my joke 'cos it was very true.

Still I would discuss more the topic of "old dudes" saying it's the talent not the tools, not the brands etc... But ask them to use the tools developed in XXI century and ask them for opinion then. They will say COMFORT at least. So, if you use technique and tools, you are the winner, Viper. Do not feel upset because the world is changing. I have read the article on squashsite of this ol' man Hashim Khan regarding his style of training (8 hrs per day) while he says that nowadays players cannot stand one hour on court. Well, sorry to disagree with the legend again :-) as it makes NO SENSE to compare it.

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Your argument makes no sense.

We are not comparing wooden rackets against modern light weight composites, if we were you would have a point.

The difference between all the current equipement on offer is little.

Like skis like golf clubs like tennis rackets like squash rackets all the top brands are excellent, it then only comes down to personal preference.

The point is the old saying holds true, "it is not the tools, it is the player"

I bet if you were offered a huge sponsorship by an alternate manufacturer of say rackets you would suddenly find the difference from you current wand dissapear.......

I play a number of sports well, this carry on with the equipement has long been proven as our own preocupation, little more.

Bode Miller would always been an absolute world beater on any top brand of ski , so would Federra with tennis rackets and so would Palmer in our sport.

Technique is far more important than "brand"

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Oh, dear Viper wants to live back to the ice-age. Why do we need "equipement" at all? Oh, man, c'mon... It's so naive call from you. Do not take me wrong but if the companies are working to make my life easier, i am going to use the adventage of it. And definitely I am not going to play with the wooden racket, because it's about skills. Man, I think I can play the wooden racket, but what's the point?

Do you really want to live your life without using contemporary technologies ? ... But, wait, why do you use internet and forum, let's go back to old-fashioned stamps, envelopes and snail mail :-D

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Yeah Viper - I can drive a bomb car too but I prefer my automatic - saves the back, saves the shoulders, enjoy the ride......what else can I say......

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Sorry Slavi, too much weight is placed on equipment.

Like skiing a great skier will still be a great skier on old out of date planks.

It is not about the tools but about skill.

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Well, I told you, I do it properly or I don't do that at all. What's the point of writing - I love wilson racket :-) but now you know WHY DO I LOVE IT :-)

Regarding Viper post 'bout shoes, "any quality dedicated brand will do", I am sorry to disagree a bit.
Take a look on Adidas Stabil On Fire or any other model from its range. Use that shoe for 3-6 months and check out the insole, I am sure it has a holes after your toes and it tears and rips here and there. And take a look on the insole in Asics shoe – shape is perfect even after 6 months. And the insole itself is designed to comfort your feet better. I can't express myself better, but I am sure you know what I mean ;-)

So, if you buy Adidas shoes, be sure that you will need to get http://www.sportdiscount.com/sport_squash/product_squash_accessories.asp?pids=462&item=%3Cstrong%3ESORBOTHANE%20SHOCKSTOPPER%20FULL%20STRIKE%3C/strong%3E with them

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Slavi - no wonder you had to take a bit of time as that was a very comprehensive review. Squashgame appreciate that too.   Wilsons should sponsor you a racket for that rap.

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Wilson nTour review is done. I wanted to place the pict there but my computer skills are much worse than my squash skills so I gave up. Anyway, the picture is placed somewhere in "My pictures"

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Hey there, I just sat down to write it down, but my babe is calling me right now... 5 months old Marcell needs to go for a walk. But I am ready to write my review, I have my notes ready... I promise I do it otday

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W- a-i t- i- n- g

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Rita, I haven't forgotten neithter. Be sure that WIlson nTour will be revied here pretty soon.

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Slavi - I have not forgotten and  am patiently waiting for the gear review now it is holiday time. 
Remember, make some rough notes too or do the post in Notepad not to be disappointed.
Squash clothing and shoes  is personal, but rackets and strings do vary, eg aluminium frames, etc.
It would be interesting to know something about the ball used in the colder climates to assist our members in Europe.

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Must admit I see little involved in squash equipement.

Ball - who cares

Shoes - any quality dedicated squash brand will do.

Racket -  well maybe, but for me ( I recently purchased a new one) and hit 3 of 4 for a few minutes and then picked one.

For me the simplicity of the tools of the game of squash is refreshing

 

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Slavi - thanks, I know you had some bad luck with your post, and it has also sometimes happened to me, so where is that hankerchief 
My tip is, do the post in Notepad doc, then paste it in, save it too, and then bingo you are covered if anything goes wrong.
We will just have to wait till your holidays, no choice! Look forward to it.

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Well, Rita, the thing is ... to write valuable review of the racket, shoes, strings is verychallenging and responsible task. I tried once to write about my Wilson nTour racket. Somehow the toil of 45 minutes met the universe of web space... Never appeared in the gear review to put it short.

But Christmas is coming, I will have a bit more time so I will write once more on Wilson nTour racket (without technological description of the nano technology of the frame components), maybe I will write on Asics shoes as i assume that most of the players use Adidas on Fire or Prince, eventually Hi Tec...

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